Comments on: DebAughtchery: Greatest Collapse of the Aughts http://www.popramblings.com/2009/12/14/debaughtchery-greatest-collapse-of-the-aughts/ helping you see and hear no evil Tue, 10 Jan 2012 18:33:52 +0000 hourly 1 By: Jim http://www.popramblings.com/2009/12/14/debaughtchery-greatest-collapse-of-the-aughts/comment-page-1/#comment-336 Jim Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:20:45 +0000 http://www.popramblings.com/?p=462#comment-336 I think there is a potent difference between Tiger and Bonds though. No matter was is stacked against Tiger, there is always the redemptive power of the game. That opportunity is taken away from Bonds (because he cheated on the game, not his wife...). I think what happened to Tiger is similar to what happened to Jordan during the baseball retirement, only much more poorly handled. If Tiger comes back in a year or six months (or sooner), divorced, angry, and bitter at the media and then proceeds to rip off another Tiger Slam and smash Nicklaus' record, we will forgive him because that is what being the greatest has to offer, permanent immunity. As evidenced by his HoF speech, Michael Jordan is a total asshole who definitely cheated on his wife and probably gambled away a quarter of his fortune but we forgive him, because he is the best and there is no arguing that fact. Bonds doesn't get that chance, no way. I think there is a potent difference between Tiger and Bonds though. No matter was is stacked against Tiger, there is always the redemptive power of the game. That opportunity is taken away from Bonds (because he cheated on the game, not his wife…). I think what happened to Tiger is similar to what happened to Jordan during the baseball retirement, only much more poorly handled. If Tiger comes back in a year or six months (or sooner), divorced, angry, and bitter at the media and then proceeds to rip off another Tiger Slam and smash Nicklaus’ record, we will forgive him because that is what being the greatest has to offer, permanent immunity. As evidenced by his HoF speech, Michael Jordan is a total asshole who definitely cheated on his wife and probably gambled away a quarter of his fortune but we forgive him, because he is the best and there is no arguing that fact. Bonds doesn’t get that chance, no way.

]]> By: Brad http://www.popramblings.com/2009/12/14/debaughtchery-greatest-collapse-of-the-aughts/comment-page-1/#comment-335 Brad Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:58:35 +0000 http://www.popramblings.com/?p=462#comment-335 Yeah Tiger pretty much follows the Bonds model but it all transpired after we finished this writing. But I agree, when all's said and done he'll probably have a bigger fallout than Bonds. Here's a few thoughts I have on this though: 1 - Race is playing an even bigger role (GOLF = WHITER THAN BASEBALL). It's almost like people have been waiting years to take Tiger down and now they're just flinging everything they have at him. 2 - I think Tiger and his team are faced with much more upfront and immediate scrutiny than Bonds ever had to deal with (his was more of a slow burn). I don't know how that will play out (i.e. will he be able to fully squelch the fire in the coming months and then rebuild, or by dropping out of the arenas for which he's known is he irreparably damaging himself?). Mel Gibson certainly did lose a lot of credibility this decade, but I think he's been downhill since Braveheart. He didn't really enter the decade poised to expand his game. Yeah Tiger pretty much follows the Bonds model but it all transpired after we finished this writing. But I agree, when all’s said and done he’ll probably have a bigger fallout than Bonds. Here’s a few thoughts I have on this though:

1 – Race is playing an even bigger role (GOLF = WHITER THAN BASEBALL). It’s almost like people have been waiting years to take Tiger down and now they’re just flinging everything they have at him.

2 – I think Tiger and his team are faced with much more upfront and immediate scrutiny than Bonds ever had to deal with (his was more of a slow burn). I don’t know how that will play out (i.e. will he be able to fully squelch the fire in the coming months and then rebuild, or by dropping out of the arenas for which he’s known is he irreparably damaging himself?).

Mel Gibson certainly did lose a lot of credibility this decade, but I think he’s been downhill since Braveheart. He didn’t really enter the decade poised to expand his game.

]]> By: Jim http://www.popramblings.com/2009/12/14/debaughtchery-greatest-collapse-of-the-aughts/comment-page-1/#comment-334 Jim Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:25:56 +0000 http://www.popramblings.com/?p=462#comment-334 The one thing I think Brad overlooks is the possibility of a racial contribution to Bonds' downfall. I'm not saying its an overriding factor, but Bonds is a black man in a sport that has an overwhelmingly white fan base (and media...). Bonds was a caustic, anti-social personality for sure and he certainly did not have as shrewd a PR team as McGwire, but he also had a litany of pesky, bespectacled white newspapermen and lawyers crawling up his butt looking to bring him down every day. In other words, Bonds' downfall wasn't all his fault, many were rooting for him to fail. Nobody openly rooted for Britney to fail. Gibson is intriguing, but didn't we know he was kind of a crackpot to begin with? After all, and even though it hasn't shaken out yet, I think Le Tigre d'Amore will be the most remembered because he truly was at the top of his industry and was successfully maintaining a sense that he was impervious to PR disaster. The one thing I think Brad overlooks is the possibility of a racial contribution to Bonds’ downfall. I’m not saying its an overriding factor, but Bonds is a black man in a sport that has an overwhelmingly white fan base (and media…). Bonds was a caustic, anti-social personality for sure and he certainly did not have as shrewd a PR team as McGwire, but he also had a litany of pesky, bespectacled white newspapermen and lawyers crawling up his butt looking to bring him down every day. In other words, Bonds’ downfall wasn’t all his fault, many were rooting for him to fail. Nobody openly rooted for Britney to fail.

Gibson is intriguing, but didn’t we know he was kind of a crackpot to begin with? After all, and even though it hasn’t shaken out yet, I think Le Tigre d’Amore will be the most remembered because he truly was at the top of his industry and was successfully maintaining a sense that he was impervious to PR disaster.

]]> By: Gilp http://www.popramblings.com/2009/12/14/debaughtchery-greatest-collapse-of-the-aughts/comment-page-1/#comment-333 Gilp Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:37:55 +0000 http://www.popramblings.com/?p=462#comment-333 Brad puts forth a good model for collapse when he brings to attention the idea of fading into obscurity. This is why I can't root for Britney because no matter how badly I would like to see her fade into a Cheetos induced coma of irrelevancy, she is still front page news. Bonds is a good example but lacks the pop culture punch. Not enough people give a damn about baseball. This could simply be remedied by force feeding James Earl Jones beautiful Field of Dreams soliloquy on ever coming of age youth...but I digress. I think the real power of the Bond's example is the shame he induces in fans. Do I feel shame for shaking my bum to “Toxic”? Hell no! Do I regret having fallen under the spell of Brady Anderson's juiced up sideburns? Hell yeah! The difference is that while Brit did make a complete ass out of herself she didn't embarrass me personally. She still managed somehow to make butt swaying music. Bond's, on the other hand, questioned the integrity of my favorite game. So using this shame model, I put forth Mel Gibson. He created a nation wide collection grimace after his antisemitic meltdown. All of the sudden people seemed to forget how much they loved Mad Max as a kid or how charming he was in my personal guilty chick flick pleasure “What Women Want”. He just became a complete douche bag that couldn't sell a movie to save his life. Tom Cruise could fall into this mold as well but Scientology isn't quite as abrasive as blaming Jews for “all the wars in the world”. Plus Tom was pretty funny in “Tropic Thunder”. So there you go-- Mel Gibson. A big fall, yet to have a resurgence. Makes me feel shame for having once turned me on. Brad puts forth a good model for collapse when he brings to attention the idea of fading into obscurity. This is why I can’t root for Britney because no matter how badly I would like to see her fade into a Cheetos induced coma of irrelevancy, she is still front page news. Bonds is a good example but lacks the pop culture punch. Not enough people give a damn about baseball. This could simply be remedied by force feeding James Earl Jones beautiful Field of Dreams soliloquy on ever coming of age youth…but I digress. I think the real power of the Bond’s example is the shame he induces in fans. Do I feel shame for shaking my bum to “Toxic”? Hell no! Do I regret having fallen under the spell of Brady Anderson’s juiced up sideburns? Hell yeah! The difference is that while Brit did make a complete ass out of herself she didn’t embarrass me personally. She still managed somehow to make butt swaying music. Bond’s, on the other hand, questioned the integrity of my favorite game.
So using this shame model, I put forth Mel Gibson. He created a nation wide collection grimace after his antisemitic meltdown. All of the sudden people seemed to forget how much they loved Mad Max as a kid or how charming he was in my personal guilty chick flick pleasure “What Women Want”. He just became a complete douche bag that couldn’t sell a movie to save his life. Tom Cruise could fall into this mold as well but Scientology isn’t quite as abrasive as blaming Jews for “all the wars in the world”. Plus Tom was pretty funny in “Tropic Thunder”.
So there you go– Mel Gibson. A big fall, yet to have a resurgence. Makes me feel shame for having once turned me on.

]]> By: courtneyc http://www.popramblings.com/2009/12/14/debaughtchery-greatest-collapse-of-the-aughts/comment-page-1/#comment-332 courtneyc Tue, 15 Dec 2009 03:44:23 +0000 http://www.popramblings.com/?p=462#comment-332 fine job Brad, Seth But Tiger Woods = Epic FAIL fine job Brad, Seth
But
Tiger Woods = Epic FAIL

]]>